Selecting BB Red breeders - Page 3 - OEGB Int'l Society

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Selecting BB Red breeders

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  • Next notice the tails. The female line bird on the left has black shafts all the way down to the skin however does show some shafting in her primary tail coverts. Would be better without but my birds aren't perfect either. The male line on the right shows shafting in main tail.and stipling goes more then just top two feathers.
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  • The final post on this shows the back and wing on both. Again the female line bird is on the left. Notice how the stippling and color match on the femasle line bird asnd blends together. The ma\le line bird does not match as well and looking closely you can see alittle rusty color in the wing bars.
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    Male back and wing.JPG
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  • OK this should give you guys what to look for in your females in both male and female lines. As I said their is probably some differences of opinion and not all will agree with me. Can only share with you what I learned along the way from some old hands at this. I will let you take some of this in before moving on the the breeding males of both male and female lines. Enjoy and hope you get something from this.
    Wayne kjundog Melancon
  • Good photos to compare with the female line pullet is a bueatiful thing when perfected, but getting there is a work, keep pressing on and you will get the results you are seeking for, and don't have no mercy culling, I know some are hard to let go of!
  • Great post and photos kdog! This is the kind of forum that will help people in their breeding program. Happy Easter to all!
    Barry
  • Hey Bill, I hope this is living up to your expectations since you are the one who asked for this. So lets begin to discuss the breeding males. The male line breeding male is a showbird in most respects. The closest you can get to the standard in color and type. Of coarse we all have our opinion on correct type so this is the way I see it and again I will say some will disagree. Different bloodlines can act differently sometimes and can only relate what I see from the Barnes male line and Tanner female line that I raise. In my Tanner female line males, they seem to be smaller then a show male. They do not have as long a sickle and are a lighter top color. More like a brilliant reddish orange then deep orange red that is called for in the standard. They are a little shorter in back then my Barnes birds. Actually kinda cute. A small to medium straight thin comb is a necessity. It is worth noting that I do not dub my male breeders for my female line. They will never show and I want to see that comb,face and wattles throughout their lives so I know what is being passed to he female offsprings. One of the main differences between the male and femasle line male is in the main sickle shafts. On the female line male his shafts are black all the weay down to the skin. In a male line bird the main sickle will turn a deep red near the skin. This may sound stange as the standard calls for a black shaft but in this line if a male is used with black shafts he will throw black striping in hackle and saddle.I questioned Andy on this once and he said he would rather show a male with a fault the judge has to dig to find instead of a male with faults that are easily seen on the surface like black in hackle and saddle. I can't argue with success so I gotta believe he knows his birds. The female line bird can show a little black in saddle and hackle as well as some red ticking in body. Evidently thesefaults must be all related to the reduced shafting and fineness of stippling because the shafted and coarser sstippled birds dont throw these faults as much. I may or may not be able to post some photos today I will try.
  • Alright here are photos of one 2010 cockBarnes Male line breeder Birds. Have taken 5 pictures from a few anglesd and posese as you know photos just don't show it all. Notice for a cock he has held on to his sickle length. The next post will address color by sections.
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  • Here are the sections of the same Barnes male. If you put the arrow on the picture the name will pop up so it will tell you what you are looking at. Notice the sickle shaft as it approaches the skin turning to red while the upper portion is black. It should not show in natural position and you should have to dig to see it. Another photo I have pushed the head back so that the hackle is overlayed with the saddle. You see how they should match. The next shows wing bow and back to match but darker than the hackle and saddle. Solid back breast in birds 3 and under. It is normal to get a little after that. Usually you can look under the wing and if there is red at an early age that is a good indicator that this bird will get red in body too soon and should not be used for breeding. The last photo shows wing primary and red edging. This one ain't bad although it could be better.



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  • Here are a few photos of a Tanner female line male. Yiunwill see a slightly smaller bird with a shorterback, a week wingbow patch, poorly edged primary wing feathers, some black in hackle but most important the shaft on the sickle is black all the way down to the sjin.

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  • Great photos kdog! Very informative.
    Barry
  • edited April 2012
    I just realized, you have to be signed in to click on picture to enlarge. Never noticed that before. That means you guys that are not registered and just viewing are missing out to see these photos blown up. Better sign up.
  • edited April 2012
    Not sure how much more I can add to this except maybe a question and answer session that we all can give our point of view and how we do it. Would love to here Randy's or Tracy's opinion on how I did and whether they agree or disagree. Is this the only way? Of coarse not. Dave Sherrill produced some pretty decent males and females from the same mating. Unfortunately just like other professions it has become a world of specialists. To win today may take special matings for winning males and a different mating for winning females. Time stands still for no man. Change with it or become extinct like a dinasaur. LOL Any questions?
  • I think you did a great article. It has been mine and Ozee observation that the female line will stipple down the tail feathers as they age, also his line stipples better with age. I fo think modt gemsle lines need better golden brown color. Most females are a little dark. Maybe Tracy or Lonnie will comment. Lonnie has had his Sherrill blood since 1961. Nice job Wayne.
  • Hey Bill, I hope this is living up to your expectations since you are the one who asked for this. So lets begin to discuss the breeding males. The male line breeding male is a showbird in most respects. The closest you can get to the standard in color and type. Of coarse we all have our opinion on correct type so this is the way I see it and again I will say some will disagree. Different bloodlines can act differently sometimes and can only relate what I see from the Barnes male line and Tanner female line that I raise. In my Tanner female line males, they seem to be smaller then a show male. They do not have as long a sickle and are a lighter top color. More like a brilliant reddish orange then deep orange red that is called for in the standard. They are a little shorter in back then my Barnes birds. Actually kinda cute. A small to medium straight thin comb is a necessity. It is worth noting that I do not dub my male breeders for my female line. They will never show and I want to see that comb,face and wattles throughout their lives so I know what is being passed to he female offsprings. One of the main differences between the male and femasle line male is in the main sickle shafts. On the female line male his shafts are black all the weay down to the skin. In a male line bird the main sickle will turn a deep red near the skin. This may sound stange as the standard calls for a black shaft but in this line if a male is used with black shafts he will throw black striping in hackle and saddle.I questioned Andy on this once and he said he would rather show a male with a fault the judge has to dig to find instead of a male with faults that are easily seen on the surface like black in hackle and saddle. I can't argue with success so I gotta believe he knows his birds. The female line bird can show a little black in saddle and hackle as well as some red ticking in body. Evidently thesefaults must be all related to the reduced shafting and fineness of stippling because the shafted and coarser sstippled birds dont throw these faults as much. I may or may not be able to post some photos today I will try.
    Don't worry Wayne, I have been busy this weekend with all the family in, but I am watching and learning. I am eating this up! Thanks for all your troubles.

  • tracytracy AMARILLO,TX.
    KJUNDOG, YOU ARE RIGHT ON DAVE HAVING ONE LINE WHEN HE MATED HIS BBRED,S UP HE PUT THE BEST MALES HE HAD WITH THE BEST FEMALES HE HAD. I WILL SAY HE,S FEMALES WERE THE BEST AND HE WON ON MALES THAT MOST JUDGES WOULD NOT PLACE IN SHOWS TODAY.IM OLD SCHOOL BUT JUDGE BY THE BOOK ON COLOR MALES ARE ORANGE RED NOT RED.THE TYPE AND FEATHER IS SO MUCH BETTER TODAY BUT HAVE GOT AWAY FROM THE COLOR. AND YOU DO HAVE A FEW BREEDERS THAT BREED FEMALE LINE THANK GOD. A GOOD COLORED FEMALE SHOULD HAVE THE COLOR OF A LIGHT BROWN LEGHORN FEMALE.BUT GOOD O.E. FEMALE TYPE. THE DARK COLORED MALES WILL NOT THROWS A GOOD STIPPLED FEMALES. MOST BREEDERS WILL NOT KEEP A MALE THAT THROWS GOOD FEMALES BECAUSE THE ARE LIGHT IN COLOR LIKE A WHEATON MALE. GOOD LUCK TO ALL AND GREAT ARTICLE KJUNDOG.
  • There will always be controversy in the correct shade of red. Before I got out in 1999 I had Barnes birds that seemed lighter then what Andy had now. Living on the Mississippi River I tried to find a shade that would please all but failed. I would go east of the Mississippi and my birds were too light. Those dark Inman and Duckets were popular there. I would go west and they were too dark. When I decided to get back in and wanted some more Barnes birds the first thing my son said was why do you want to go through that again. Get some of Jerry's female line. There is no arguing on the color of a good female. She either is or isn't right. LOL Now I got them both.
  • tracytracy AMARILLO,TX.
    I GUESS YOU KNOW WHERE TANNER GOT HIS START OF BB RED,S HE BOUGHT FROM A FRIEND OF MINE DONNIE OLIVER THAT HAD DAVES BLOOD AND DONNIE ALSO HAD BIRDS FROM A GUY NAMED BILL HUFFINE LIVED IN OKLAHOMA CITY. BILL GOT BIRDS FROM DAVE ALSO SMALL WORLD.
  • Ralph Sheriff Sr. got his original start with a male from Jack Yoder and three full sisters that were Dave Sherrill's blood, that is what his bloodline is to this day if you buy it pure from those who have retained it that way! But with that in mind he actually took a male from the top winning male line at that time and crossed it to females from the top winning female line of that time, sounds like he took a piece of Dave's work and ideas and put his own little twist on it by adding the Yoder male line to it, and if you will notice the photo on this page [the old photo] the bird that Yoder is holding is what we of now days call light. It is quite simple thinking really if you look at the big picture, breed the best to the best, and work out all the kinks on the way. It worked for them, just my two cents worth of thinking not saying you have to follow any one's idea's so don't pin this on me, but it sure will cause you to consider setting up a pen to test the thought!! Awe come on you already ran outside and switched some birds around didn't you!! LOL.....
  • tracytracy AMARILLO,TX.
    DAVE TOLD ME MANY YEARS AGO THAT HE AND YODER GOT THERE BB RED,S FROM HAROLD BRADSHAW AND WRIGHT AND WORKMAN. ALSO DAVE AND JACK TRADED BIRDS FROM TIME TO TIME. JACK WAS WINNING ON MALES AND DAVE ON FEMALES.
  • Here is a piece of information that is pretty common knowledge to the old hands with BB Reds but may be usefull to the beginner. The BB Reds can be sesxed at Day old by their markings. The female gas a more defined eye stripe. The photo on the left is a male chick and the photo on the right is a female chick.

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    Femasle Chick.JPG
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